Matthew 7:1-6
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.”
Several questions for you:
- What do you have to say about this?
- What does it mean? What does it NOT mean?
- Are we not allowed to make any kind of judgements?
- How are we to discern what is right or wrong?
- How do we decide anything if we cannot make judgements?
What else is on your heart/mind this week?
39 comments:
If everybody else was as smart as us and acted as well as we do then there would be no problem.
When Paul writes the Corinthians he says some interesting things about “judging.” The first involves the “incestuous” relationship that is being tolerated in the Corinthian church. Here is how Paul summarizes his directive to the church regarding handing the sinful man “over to Satan.”
I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people–not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
[1 Corinthians 5:9-13]
The second situation involves Christians suing one another. Paul is strongly opposed to this. As he explains his position, he says some interesting things about judging, specifically that Christians will judge the world and angels. If this is the case, then we can make judgments about situations that involve each other.
If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother goes to law against another–and this in front of unbelievers!
[1 Corinthians 6:1-6]
So how do these passages and thoughts fit with our text for the week?
I am excited about our 40 Days of Focus. Are you? What do think will happen? For me, the 40 days is going to be related to this passage. Among other things, I am going to work on a critical (judgmental?) spirit that lives in my heart. How 'bout you? What are some of the things you are going to do?
I don't know that we're not supposed to make some judgments regarding people. Like Diane said, you have to be able to make good decisions about who you can trust. I understand this passage to mean that none of us is any better than anybody else, in terms of sin. The only thing that saves me is Jesus' death on the cross. Before grace, I was as lost as anybody sitting on death row. So, I can't hold myself up as some sort of example. However, we're to be "wise as serpents and gentle as doves." So, I think Jesus wants us to be wise to the ways of the world. Like most things, there's a fine line someplace, and you have to take care not to cross it. Also, the attitude with which we approach another Christian who's fallen into sin makes a difference. I really have some difficulty with the verses that instruct us to shun a brother who's misbehaving. I suspect we're better off leaving that to the elders.
Donna
Ashley is having knee surgery tomorrow at BMC. Her knee is out of place and the doctor could not put it back in, so a cat scan couldn't be done which would have aided him in knowing what is wrong. She is in lots of pain and is very concerned about school(she is to graduate in may) and work.
Annette
So what is supposed to happen with excommunication, “shunning,” or “disfellowshipping”? It is a fairly clear biblical doctrine. Right? Doesn’t Jesus teach it in Matthew 18:15-17?
"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
What are we trying to accomplish by breaking fellowship? If you read Paul in 1 Corinthians 5, then you see that the goal is restoration. It is more of a corrective surgery than a death sentence, I think. Many scholars believe that it was effective in Corinth, based on later writings.
Why don’t we do it (disfellowship) much today? Probably because it does not seem to work. I have seen it practiced a few times in my life, and I can’t remember a single time when the desired result of restoration occurred. Why? Do you think it could be that we do not have a strong enough sense of community? What I have observed in most cases is that the person being disfellowshiped has already cut off fellowship, so what is the point?
Relating the idea of disfellowshipping to our text: how can any one be disfellowshipped without some kind of judgment taking place? To broaden the conversation: how do we decide what is the right behavior for members of a Christian community? Is it monolithic, i.e., are some things right in some communities and wrong in others? I am talking about “gray” areas, things not specifically discussed in the Bible.
By what standard do we decide correct behavior? Who decides what is right or wrong about gray areas? It seems to me it is the community of believers who are in tune with The Story. As a community they examine the Scriptures for clues for guidance, and then the community decides what is right for them in their particular context. Again, I am talking about areas where there are no specific Scriptural directives. Luke Timothy Johnson has a wonderful book that I have read three times, Scripture and Discernment: Decision Making in the Church. It makes a strong case from Scripture for communal discernment to determine the establishment of practices.
All of this is very important as we discuss the topic of judging others. What do you think? I really want to know.
When I hear a person ask, why do you judge me? for some reason I hear "for my wrong doings" at the end of the sentence. I believe there are two kind of judging that the bible speaks on because the bible does tell us to judge. You have those who judges (give thier own opinion about a matter) and then you have those who judges (that uses the word of the Lord). When I use to work at Ruby Tuesday in GA, people would ask me spiritual questions about different kind of sins and when I would tell them about it, you always had someone in the room that ask, why do you judge people who sin. Doesn't the bible tell you not to judge people. I had to let them know. I was asked a question and what I had said was not from me but from the word. People are so fast to defend their position by saying hey you are judging me instead of listening and understanding that obviously if you are being judge, there is something wrong with what you are doing. When I hear a Christian ask why do you judge me, that bothers me because if I come to you as a brother in Christ and you are doing something that God does not approve of, why would you get offended? When the bible say that we are not to judge, it is saying we are not to judge people by our standers but by God standers.
Gino Hunter
I am finishing up an older book (1993) by Walter Bruggemann, Texts Under Negotiation - The Bible and Postmodern Imagination. It’s an interesting read. I like what he says here (p. 36):
The church as an alternative community in the world is not a “voluntary association,” an accident of human preference. The church as a wedge of newness, as a foretaste of what is coming, as a home for the odd ones, is the work of God’s originary mercy. For all its distortedness, the church peculiarly hosts God’s power for life.
How true! Then he says something, a little later on (p.49), that really gets at what I hope will happen during our 40 Days of Focus.
My thought is that a community that regularly yields its past to a memory of generous origins in God’s good power, and that regularly yields its future to the buoyant intentionality of God’s promises, a community that breaks out of amnesia and despair will unavoidably live differently in the present. That is, we will not get far in reshaping the present until both past and future are boldly reframed. But with reframing of those limits, a reshaping of the present could happen.
Imagine a self, no longer the self of consumer advertising, no longer caught in endless efforts of self-security, but a self rooted in the inscrutable miracle of God’s love, a self no longer consigned to the rat race, but one oriented to full communion with God–which is its true destiny and rightful home. Imagine such a self present regularly to the scripting of the sermon, present regularly to the sacraments of generosity. And imagine as a pastor being present to that self as it grows, changes, and matures.
I can see it, and I long for it!
Greetings all!
First Annettee, I hope Ashley's knee surgery goes fine. Who is her doctor? From past experience, do exactly what they tell her and recovery is much quicker. I know from going through it.
I started a book last night called; "Starving Jesus; 40 days of nothing!" WOW. It is an "in your face" book. ( Thanks Jean for giving me the tip about this book). It really ties in with the 40 days of focus, I only wish I had started reading it sooner. On that topic, is anyone else struggling with a topic for this time period?
Onto to judgement or judging. I have to say that I am a little at odds with Gino's comments as I don't believe God sets us out to judge people and we are to go about judging all the time whether they be Christians or non Christians. The big issuse I see with any type of judging is the condition of the heart or intent behind the judging. If we are doing it with a haughty attitude ( what I think the scripture for this lesson is about) then we are totally off track. If however, the act of judgement or acknowledgement is out of a loving and caring heart then it is acceptable. But to me one of the big things is what do we do after we "judge". It is of no value and in my opinion wrong to point out someone's errors or issues and then just leave them to fix it. We need to get out of the pew and help them. In other words if I felt a member was doing something wrong, just pointing it out is not the answer. There are 100's if not 1000's of people that can point it out, but how many to help? Using this as anology, as a coach if I see a player who has a flaw and all I do is yell from the side line "wrong wrong wrong!" They never improve. If I take the active approach, show them how to do it better and how there is a way that has better results, they have not only been show the problem but also a means toward a solution.
This is what troubles me about the idea of dicommunicating someone. That just doesn't seem too "christian" to me. It would seem that is when they need the "family" the most. I am sure if they are a chuch member they already know what they are doing is wrong, it is not like someone comes up and tells them and they go "oh my, I didn't know!"
Just my opinion, judging has to be done with a good heart and has to be followed by action! Isn't that what Christ did? Think about the woman brought to him who was caught in the act of adultry. She knew it was wrong and his direction was "go and sin no more!" He always seem to point things out but he gave some direction from there and I think he did it to those down and out with a visibly caring and open heart.
Sorry to ramble.
RR
Thanks Ryan. Dr Cha is doing her surgery. I will be sure to tell her what you said, thanks for the advice. Could you email me please @ annettebyrd@hotmail.com, I would like to ask you some questions. I worked last night and have to go back tonight so it might take me a bit to get back to you. She is scheduled for 1 pm so I need to get some sleep.
Annette
Annette, pass on my best wishes to Ashley. I pray that all goes well with her (and her mama :), it's always worse on the parents than the kids). Allen, one of the reasons disfellowshipping doesn't seem to work much, is that there's a church on every corner. You can always go someplace else. I think I heard someone mention that in a similar discussion a while back. Also, in the ancient church, getting kicked out was huge. There was no salvation apart from the Church. Not to receive the sacraments was not to receive grace. Apart from Catholics, almost nobody believes that, anymore.
Another thing that strikes me, and I remembered it when I read Gino's post, why is it unbelievers disregard practically the whole Bible, EXCEPT the part about not judging? They latch onto that, then throw the rest away...
Donna
RR first you must understand that for four years I worked in missions as a spiritual advisor with alcoholics, drug addicts, homeless people, people with some serious attitude problem and people who really had a hate for God. Just like I did at one point. What I wrote on the blog is what I have experience working at the missions. Even today when people find out what I did at the missions, they ask a lot of questions. Some of the questions that people ask are judgemental questions and most of the questions that people ask are why does God allow this and how come God allows that? If you were to ask any of my friends am I judgemental, they would probably laugh at you. I do not go around looking to point out people wrong doing, but if someone ask me a question and it is going to lead to a judgemental answer, I will give them the word and if they need help with something, I am willing to help. will continue. Have to go to work. Please do not take my comments as a tool to beat people up. Like I said before, I am not beating people up. These are things I have experience.
Remembering the dark time when I fell away from God and still feeling the sting of those sins, I can feel great compassion for those who come back and try again. The ones who drove me further away were those who scolded me, were aloof and arrogant toward me and those who avoided me. The ones I remember that brought me back were those who chose to pass over the sin and see the soul that needed God again. I had seen enough of the world and my desire was to serve him again. The world is a lonely place when you know what is right and are not doing it. The friendships you form there are not true because they, like you, are focused on only themselves. I so much appreciated what all of you have contributed to this weeks blog and can only add the following taken from a devotional book I read daily by Max Lucado entitled,
'Get Out Of The Judgement Seat' referring to Matt: 7:2
We condemn a man for stumbling this morning, but we didn't see the blows he took yesterday. We judge a woman for the limp in her walk, but cannot see the tack in her shoe. We mock the fear in their eyes, but have no idea how many stones they have ducked or darts they have dodged. Are they too loud? Perhaps they fear being neglected again. Are they too timid? Perhaps they fear failing again. Too slow? Perhaps they fell the last time they hurried. You don't know. Only one who has followed yesterday's steps can be their judge. Not only are we ignorant about yesterday, we are ignorant about tomorrow. Dare we judge a book while chapters are yet unwritten? Should we pass a verdict on a painting while the artist still holds the brush? How can you dismiss a soul until God's work is complete? 'God began doing a good work in you, and I am sure he will continue it until it is finished when Jesus Christ comes again? (Phil. 1:6)
Have a blessed day everyone. I love all of you. Sherron
Gino, Ok, I did misunderstand what you said or was saying. Was I being judgemental? :)
That makes more sense now.
As what Donna says, I have to agree that in the past it was a HUGE deal but now just go somewhere else. This may really step on some toes, but it doesn't seem that we are tied to a particular doctrine any more. The lines are pretty well blurred. The book I mentioned earlier had a comment about church today is feel good be happy and that you don't point out the bad stuff because it might drive someone away. I think that is true and to tie into what Donna says, if we did point it out they could just go down the street to a "feel good" church and all is well.
RR
WOW Sherron! Thank you so much, that was exactly what I needed to hear today!
A powerful reminder, we so often have tunnel vision depending on which end of the problem we happen to be on.
Well, tomorrow is the big day: the start of our 40 Days of Focus. I am very excited about it. I have selected my five people, which is actually five families, for my prayer focus. I have selected my various elements of fasting, and I am excited by the challenge of being very disciplined in an effort to glorify God by drawing closer to him. My service aspect is going to be free-flowing, possibly random at times, and secretive. I am actually just praying and waiting for opportunities to serve others. I know there will be exciting opportunities made known to me.
Today was/is my Mardi Gras. (Ha ha) I had a great stromboli at Greccos for lunch. I had some great company as a result of my email: Ralph, Rose, and Charley Sue, along with Jay and Jamie E., Kedra, and Jamie Y. [Steve Rose from Michigan said he wanted to come but only had one hour for lunch.] My Mardi Gras will not in any way resemble what happens in New Orleans; just thought you should know that!
Do you have anything to share about the 40 Days? Anyone giving up something huge, like tobacco?
Wow! Here’s an Interesting Article that may get people upset.
NEW YORK (AP) - Today's college students are more narcissistic and self-centered than their predecessors, according to a comprehensive new study by five psychologists who worry that the trend could be harmful to personal relationships and American society.
"We need to stop endlessly repeating 'You're special' and having children repeat that back," said the study's lead author, Professor Jean Twenge of San Diego State University. "Kids are self-centered enough already."
Mike M. told me about this last week, and we were joking that we should tell our kids, as a corrective, that they are stupid. Again, that was a joke.
I do wonder about the effort our culture puts forth to establish “self-esteem” within our children. Are we really just reinforcing fleshly, natural selfishness? True self-esteem, in my opinion, comes when we realize that we are image-bearers of God, and when we comprehend just how much God loves us. It doesn’t get much better than that! Our internal confidence and comfort is further enhanced as we learn to be “other-directed,” as we learn to serve.
If we grow up being the center of attention, then don’t we have a hard time learning to serve others. Is this why people have such a hard time receiving any kind of criticism? And quickly play the “judgment card?”
Kedra and I tried really hard to NOT make our kids the center of attention. I heard a long time ago that the best way to be a good parent is to love your spouse first and foremost (after God, of course). We are still in the process of raising our children, but I think they are doing OK so far. I want them to be able to listen to criticism without getting defensive, not playing the "judgment card."
Wow, Sherron, I can certainly relate to your blog post! About 10 years ago I made a bad decision. It wasn't sin, but I used really bad judgment. After nearly a year, I realized what a horrible decision I had made and came back to the community I had fellowshipped with for nearly 7 years. No one would have anything to do with me, except to criticize, belittle me and gossip about me. I have never gotten over that. Even though I have loved the Lord for nearly all my life, people who claim to be Christians are the people I least trust. When I was in the midst of my situation I felt like all of the people that I thought were my Christian friends drew their robes and walked arrogantly around me. People who did not claim to love God are the ones who showed such empathy and compassion and attended to the physical needs my children and I. Christians are definitely the ones who slaughter their wounded while often the world shows such compassion and empathy.
Ashley's surgery looks like it is a success. She had to stay in the hospital overnight. She will have to stay off it for 6 wks up to 3 mo. with PT, which will be hard for her. The Dr thinks she could possibly regain 100% functioning ability.
Annette
Focus! It’s here, and I am ready.
A few comments before I continue my thread about why people play the “judgement card” so quickly. First, I really appreciate the good posts this week. I am still trying to figure out when/how to comment back. Most of the time I just let them stand “as is.” So many of them are so good and don’t need anything from me. I really enjoy reading what others say; it is very helpful to me in many ways. It gives me a good glimpse of what others think, and my thoughts are often stimulated.
Second, I do feel the need to say a couple of things. I THINK the Mitchell church does better than the ones described in receiving back those who have wandered. I don’t sense the “shunning” that has been mentioned in the previous posts. Also, I don’t think we shy away from the “hard sayings.” We are trying to present the challenges of God straight up; no sugar coating, hopefully.
Third, the general feeling so far is that “disfellowshipping” is ineffective and should not be done. Right? How do we deal with the fact that it is God’s idea and was practiced in the early church? I want to be very careful about ignoring it. Yet, I agree that in our present context it does not work. So I guess I am wondering what do we lack that creates an ineffectiveness in this area. Is the answer True Community? Ponder that one later.
From Dallas Willard in The Divine Conspiracy, page 225-6. Read this carefully (maybe even twice). He is talking about the necessity of “judging” in the good way, but how that it is often not received well.
We do not have to–we cannot– surrender the valid practice of distinguishing and discerning how things are in order to avoid condemning others. We can, however, train ourselves to hold people responsible and discuss their failures with them–and even assign them penalties, if we are, for example, in some position over them–without attacking their worth as human being or marking them as rejects. A practiced spirit of intelligent agape will make this possible.
But that is a complicated task at best: not only because we may not know how to do it, which is often the case, but also because those we appraise may not know how to take our appraisal in any other way than as an attack on their person. This is especially true today, when people are so desperately seeking approval. Having no adequate sense of themselves as spiritual beings, or of their place in a good world of God, they regard any negative appraisal of what they do as condemnation of themselves as persons. They have nowhere to stand to do otherwise.
It is interesting and important to observe that today the old phrase “hate the sin and love the sinner” no longer is accepted. If you disapprove of what I do or how I do it, it is now generally thought, you can only be condemning me and rejecting me. This is another evidence of the devastating effect of the loss to our culture of any idea of the self as a spiritual being that not only has but is an inner substance. “I am my actions,” it is thought, “and how then can you say you disapprove of my actions but love me?”
But of course this attitude may also be a manipulative device I use to try drive you into approving of everything I do. Then perhaps I can enjoy without reproach my sovereign liberty–so dear to the American heart–to do exactly what I want. Or at least I can hotly reproach you in turn for trying to “impose your ideas on me.” Few people today can stand up to this device in public or private discourse while retaining with equanimity their own sense of truth and reality. Better just to not think, or at least to be quiet.
Such easy misunderstandings as are now current make it all the more important that we be very clear in our own minds what condemnation is and how it relates to the more basic sense of judgment that only involves “separating” one thing from another to the best of our ability. We simply cannot forsake discernment, and Jesus himself devotes the last half of Matthew 7 to urging us precisely to discern and, in that sense, to “judge.”
Allen, certainly everything in scripture is inspired, and should be taken seriously. But, the fact that we've discussed giving errant sinners the boot and decided it's not too effective is just another proof that, even thought the ancient church did something that doesn't mean it works well in a modern context. Using the ancient church as our model is good, for the most part, but taking something out of its ancient, biblical context and applying it to our situation without interpretation is fundamentalism. We need to interpret scripture and find the principle behind it.
I don't think a person should be disfellowshipped unless their sin is so blatant, or they're being so divisive and hateful, that they pose a threat to the health of the congregation.
Donna
I in no way meant that the world was more accepting of me. The world will use you (the World, meaning Satan) for it's purposes. Only in the church and in my Lord do I find contentment and forgivness. The ones who scolded me were only a few concerned Christians who in their own way were trying to lead me back to God. The ones who shunned me were surprisingly the ones who professed no Christianity at all (which gave them no right to judge). The responsibility was on my shoulders to come back and when the time came nothing was going to stop me and nothing will ever stop me again. Satan uses all his tools to drive us away from God and keep us away by clouding our perceptions and making us focus on ourselves instead of the intent of the perpetrator. My Christian friends are my family and the ones who helped me grow and learn, not my friends in the world. They are long gone. Please read Hebrews 12 and 13 as I did this morning. Discipline is good and useful to bring us close to the heart of God. I needed discipline and God did it for me. Have a beautiful and blessed day, everyone. Love, Sherron
In our scripture in Matthew 18, Christ calls his followers to treat those who do not listen to individuals, the elders or the church as you would treat the “pagans and tax collectors”. But through the Gospels, Christ regularly dines with and befriends tax collectors and other ‘undesirable” people. How does this fit into our ideas of how and when to “disfellowship” or “shun” people?
How does repentance fit into the picture of when to withhold fellowship from people who are sinning? If a person shows that they are really seeking the truth or have repented but not stopped sinning, does that mean that we should not associate with them, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians? And how do these ideas mesh with Christ’s call later in Matthew 18 to forgive a sinner not 7 times, but 7 times 77 times?
If I understand Paul correctly (which is by no means certain), someone who persistently lives a life characterized by sin is unsaved, even if they profess faith. By this, I don't mean that a Christian never sins, or doesn't have weak areas where they frequently fall short and need work, but rather someone whose life is untransformed. I suspect that this is the kind of person Paul instructed the Corinthians to avoid, not Christians who're having problems which they recognize and are addressing. In regards to a person who is searching for the truth, if they're still searching I would think they're still unsaved, in which case they're not bound to the same standards Christians are. Avoiding or "shunning" them wouldn't bring them closer to God. IMHO, those who're unsaved but sincerely seek Christ should be encouraged and supported by believers, but the believer must be careful not to be drawn into sin, as well.
I think humility is a key element when making these kinds of "judgements."
Donna
I know that Im going to be late for work but I have to give a story of shunning someone away.I use to go to bible school with one of the guys that I worked with in GA at Ruby Tuesday. When we were at work, this guy would cuss, call waitress all kind of ungodly names and his attitude was pretty much the way the world think and believe. When the people found out that he was going to bible school and attending church, they were shocked because even though most of them werent christian, they knew how a christian is suppose to act to a certain degree. I had pulled John to the side a few times and told him, come on, you are suppose to be a follower of Christ and you know better than this. John belief was this, I know who God is and I know who Christ is, Im saved and I know that I am going to heaven so you have no right to judge me. Every time I said something to him, he had the same attitude so eventually I stopped dealing with him period. So Donna I understand you fully. Time to get back to work.
I find it very hard to judge people in the true sense of judging. I have so far to go, so much to learn and change in myself. If I see something in someone else that I feel is wrong or unplesant I pray about it and ask God for understanding or clarity and try not to be that way myself(I critique myself to see if maybe I am being like that in some other way). If the opportunity presents itself I may say a little something to diffuse the situation or show another way of looking at it to that person so it might help them think. Its not up to me to change anyone else. To push someone else to change is so frustrating to me and I don't think its my job to try to change them when I need plenty changing myself. You can plant the seed but then you have to walk away.
I can take another persons anger or maybe bad behavior because you really never know what that person is going through. What I find harder to take is pompous behavior, someone who presents themselves as a know it all, which to me means they are stuck and not open to learn anything. To me that is so ugly.
Thats what I love so much about our church family here. When I listen to Allen, David and Wayne (and others) discuss stuff their attitude is one of trying to understand and see what God is really saying. Never have I seen such a wonderful humble set of people.
I do have a big problem with others judgement of me when they have so many issues themselves. I think this is a stumbling block and I need help in how to deal with it. Please someone, please explain it to me.
Annette
This is my post from last week.Can someone give advice on this?
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I totally agree with you tw, that everyone should look to improve themselves instead of harping on someone else. It seems to me that if you do that it tends to come sit in your lap. I try to not take note of anyones faults and try to see what God wants me to change in myself. It makes it harder when the person is closer to you and who confronts you or makes comments to you. Its very hard to say 'thank you for pointing that out to me' especially when they have big beams in their own eye. Does anyone have a good way of dealing with this? I would really like to know and could use help in this area.
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Annette
I think that if someone brings something to my attention that they believe i am doing wrong it is my responsibility to look at this issue and figure out if i need to change. I am not sure it has anything to do with who brought it to my attention or with what problems they may have. My problems are my problems no matter who points them out. tw
Wow! There is some really good stuff on here this week. TW's comment may be one of the most mature, helpful ones I have seen in a while.
We had a great class tonight! It is so clarify for me.
The 40 Days is off and running. Today has been awesome. I know it will get tougher as we get further into it, but today has been super.
I love all of you. Good night.
Just a little bit on the “Jesus Tomb” deal. This is old news being repackaged to promote a TV show to be aired Sunday on the Discovery Channel. For a quick and fairly fair treatment you can read This. I predict that this will quickly pass. This attempt to undermine our faith is not nearly as sophisticated as The Da Vinci Code. Here is the problem I see with all this: it is having an impact of the younger ones in our culture and probably those who are not paying too close attention to any of it. Last week in one my Oakland City student’s paper I saw thoughts that had clearly been shaped by all the media hype surrounding The Da Vinci Code. What are we to do? Not be afraid, knowing that God is in control of his work, AND I think we must make sure that we are living true authentic lives of service that reflect Jesus. People will pay attention to that.
Regarding the Matthew 18 post, I think when Jesus tells the disciples to treat the person who is unwilling to reconcile as a “pagan or tax collector” he is doing a couple of things. First, he is drawing upon a cultural norm to communicate that you don’t have anything to do with such a person. Second, the reason to treat that person in that way is because they are a hog/dog, as per our Matthew 7 text. In other words they have taken a stubborn, arrogant, dangerous position. It is time to, using the language of Matthew 10, “shake the dust off your feet” and move on to people who are willing to listen and receive, which brings us the idea that Jesus hung around tax collectors, pagans, prostitutes, etc. Jesus is associating with people who have a heart for him, simply because he has a heart for them. The key to all of this is attitude and desire, it seems to me.
7:1 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 7:2 For by the standard you judge you will be judged, and the measure you use will be the measure you receive. (Jesus statement, “Do not judge,” is against the kind of hypocritical, judgmental attitude that tears others down in order to build oneself up. It is not a blanket statement against all critical thinking, but a call to be discerning rather than negative.) 7:3 Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to see the beam of wood in your own? 7:4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye,’ while there is a beam in your own? 7:5 You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. (Yesterday in bible study I gave a example of how this verse is use if talking to someone you know. If you have a flaw in cussing and you hear someone else cuss and try correcting them, what right do you have to correct someone when you have the same problem they have) 7:6 Do not give what is holy to dogs or throw your pearls before pigs; otherwise they will trample them under their feet and turn around and tear you to pieces. (Jesus says that we should not entrust holy teachings to unholy or unclean people. It is futile to try to teach holy concepts to people who don’t want to listen and will only tear apart what we say. We should not stop giving God’s word to unbelievers, but we should be wise and discerning in what we teach to whom, so that we will not be wasting our time.) I will end on this note. I was not always a believer in God. I knew that their was a creator but I didn’t believe in him because of the way my life would go from good to bad, from bad to good. Growing up in a home where church was a must. yet my mom who led the church choir also was a alcoholic who thought beaten the hell out of me when she got drunk pretty much made it hard to believe in someone you could trust let alone trust in God. For three years I took abuse from my mom and stepfather and for three years I prayed asking God to help me, to get me out of the situation. During the third year, I told God to go screw himself and decided to do things Gino way. From the age of 13 to 27, I have tried killing myself seven times. This is the only time I really called on God. I called on him because I was tired of going threw so much pain. Living on the streets, shoplifting for my food, sleeping wherever I could lay my head. Spending time behind bar for strong arm robbery. If you ever want to talk about trials and tribulation, I could preach on that until the sun comes up (laughter). God had to show me that he was there and it took for him to put a brick wall in front of me to realize that I couldn’t do this anymore. So it was there in California that God grabbed a hold of me and have not let go since. For four years, I’ve watched people tear their lives apart trying to find themselves not knowing that it is God who is waiting patiently but you must seek him first in order for him to help you. I understand this bible because I lived a lot of it throughout my life. I understand that God is not a God to be played with when he tells us to do what it says. I am not perfect and I have my flaws and what makes me work on my flaws is that I don’t want to ever look at myself and call Gino a hypocrite. As men and women of Christ, we are to plant the seed. People will reject you just like many have rejected Christ. Christ never gave up and neither should we. Christ be with you my brothers and sisters. From your friend, Gino Hunter
Well, another sermon is completed. I finished it about 5.30 today. I knew all of you were dying to know that. Now you can enjoy your evening. Of course I will go back over it Saturday (Friday is supposed to be my day off; rarely happens, however) a couple of times and then again on Sunday morning early. This sermon is a little different. It will be interesting to see how it is received.
This one, once again, really reflects my collaborative approach to preaching (my ACU project). The blog and my “Listening for God” Wednesday night class had a deep impact on what I ended up with. This is the beauty of working things out in community. I learned some things I had not thought of but were clearly on the minds of several. By collaborating hopefully the sermon will connect with more people than if I prepared it on my own after reading a few commentaries. I started this week on turning my doctoral thesis into a book. The book is tentatively entitled Listening for God - A Communal Approach to Preaching. I hope to have it finished by June. We’ll see...
How about a little Thursday evening report on my running life? I know you are deeply interested in this, probably about as much as my sermon preparation. I ran 133 miles in January, and 71 miles in February, so I had 204 for the first two months. I plan to average at least 100 per month this year, hopefully a few more maybe. I am running a 10K in Bedford on Saturday morning; should be nice and cold and windy. Great.
Tony and I ran last Friday morning. I ran 15 and he ran 20+. Tony is running another trail marathon next week, so he had to do a little extra. We started out in the Park and then ran out to Lawrenceport. While on the way out there we came upon a situation in the road. There were a few cars parked all over the road, and a county police officer was leaving the scene. As we got closer we saw a lady holding a small white goat, cradling it in her arms. Other people were standing around watching and talking to her. We just ran by and laughed about the weirdness of it all. A little later a car drove by. Tony thought it was the lady holding the goat, and he thought he saw the goat sitting in the back seat. [no, we do not smoke anything before or while running] About a mile later an old chevy pick up truck pulled up beside us; it was rusty, ugly and had a dog box in the back. The driver rolled his window down. There were three shabbily dressed guys in the truck. They had a full set of teeth among them. The driver said, “You guys ain’t seen no goat have ya?” We stopped and told him what we saw and what we thought we saw. He thanked us and drove off. We laughed and still wonder how it all turned out...
I know of one person who is wanting to begin running, with a view of doing a 5K (3.1 miles) later on this year. Is there anyone else out there who would like to do the same? I found This Article that would be helpful for any beginner. Also, if enough people wanted to, we could start a little running/training group to encourage each other and to run together some.
I bet there are few blogs that cover the range of topics this one does a week's time.
judgement to goats to running! WOW
( don't look lester!)
on the running article, i know several people who have followed this plan and had success. i have tons of resources if anyone is interested. we are pleased locally with some great 5k races. some of the best in the state.
allen i was wondering if you and tony made any judgements about the individuals and the goats?
i mentioned earlier that i was reading a new book this week called "starving jesus, 40 days of nothing". very interesting. very peel the onion back and nothing sacred approach. if nothing else it has really made me think a lot this week.
later
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No goats were judged, but that does remind me of Matthew 25.
The following was on Mike Cope’s Blog earlier this week. I think it is neat and is very related to this week's discussion.
Worth remembering:
1. The people working at the airport didn’t make the flights late. They didn’t create the bad weather or the mechanical problems.
2. The umpires and refs aren’t wanting the other team to win. They sometimes make bad calls, but it isn’t because they don’t like your team.
3. The person needing to merge isn’t testing your manhood (or womanhood). It’s all right to let them in.
4. Your child isn’t completely objective about his/her coaches and teachers.
5. People who disagree with you politically are probably still pretty good people, all things considered.
6. The person serving you at the restaurant is probably overworked and underpaid. What a great place to be extravagant with your expression of thanks.
7. Brothers and sisters at church who disagree with you have stories behind their feelings — some of which are hidden so deep they don’t even know them (just as you have such stories).
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