This week we begin a new, short, series entitled Generation to Generation. We begin the series with this text.
2 Timothy 1:3-7
I thank God, whom I serve, as my forefathers did, with a clear conscience, as night and day I constantly remember you in my prayers. Recalling your tears, I long to see you, so that I may be filled with joy. I have been reminded of your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and in your mother Eunice and, I am persuaded, now lives in you also. For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands. For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.
How does this text speak to intergenerational relationships as far as faith is concerned?
What in this text do you find interesting?
What else is on your mind this week?
Sunday, September 16, 2007
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My new computer is still being repaired, so I am at a little bit of a disadvantage on several things, including access to blog notes I keep, etc. But I press on! (Such a hero.)
This week we begin a 2-3 week look at generations. I tried blogging about this once before but it didn’t turn out too well. Let’s try it again this week.
We are striving to build a community of believers who relate across the generations. How can we best do this? What does Scripture have to say about it? I am really looking for good ideas, so bring ‘em on...
So how’s it going?
I seem to be in some kind of fog or something. I THINK it may be allergies, but it seems a little different. I feel like I am living in slow motion. Yesterday something happened to me during the sermon that has not happened in years: I lost my place and couldn’t remember what I was trying to say. Weird. I don’t know if what I said made any sense. Of course I wonder about that most weeks. Ha.
I slept as good yesterday as any other Sunday...HEHEHE, JUST KIDDIN YA!! I thought you did a good job, musta come from tha Heart. BIGG DADDY
I came from a church that was geared directly towards my generation... those of us in our 20's, 30's and some 40's (though it was rare to see someone older than 40 there on a Sunday, unless my parents were visiting) to our church. I have to admit, sometime's its very tough for me to feel involved or "geared to." BUT the more I'm here, the more I realize that I think this is really what God wanted for the church. I think we are supsose to be intertwined through Generations because if not, we're missing out on so much of what Christ wants to share with us because we're missing out on experiencing what others have experienced.
I think small groups will really help bridge the gap of generations by bringing us together in a familiar setting (someone's home) to where we can connect and explore the ways our generations are really similar through exploring the scriptures together. Different ages bring different perspectives and I think we'll grow tremendously as we all explore together.
ee
One thing that I have found this summer with the garden group is that all ages have an interest from Drew Passmore to Noni Baer in God's creation and we all can relate on that level. We have professional gardeners like Teresa Birtles to learners, workers who help, to givers who donate, to those who just sit back and take it all in and enjoy. Nothing lifts my spirts more than working in flowers and watching them grow and something new blooming that had not bloomed for me before and I think all of us feel that way. The more I do this, the more I am in awe of our creation and our Creator and the more I realize that I just don't know or understand how He does all this so well for us. I was fortunate growing up just a short distance from our grandparents and another elderly couple who loved children. Our kids had Effie Inman next door and we have been blessed by each of those influences. We really miss out when we don't have older friends. They are so interesting and have lived so much history in every aspect and are such a blessing. They are just like flowers that get more beautiful and bloom more profusely before the killing frost. The seeds that they have planted in our lives grow in our hearts forever and reproduce endlessly. I hope some day to be just a small bit of what they are and have been to me. Sherron
ee, tell us more about your old church. How did they “gear” it for your age group?
And thanks for the kind words; you too Bigg Daddy.
Great words, Sherron, as usual.
Last night in Duane’s class I was trying explain how different people listen to sermons in different ways. I said this in the context of wishing that we had more emotion in our assemblies. I think we are very logos based, which is ok with me. I think that it should be that way. I do wish for a little more pathos, and I just need to be more intentional in that area. I work on the ethos part constantly by trying to be authentic person of integrity. I am just concerned that we are not meeting the needs of our pathos people. Here is an excerpt from my doctoral thesis:
In 2001-2002, Christian Theological Seminary in Indianapolis, funded by the Lilly Endowment, conducted an extensive study of how people listen to sermons. Researchers discussed with more than 260 lay people, in twenty-eight diverse congregations, the elements of preaching that engage or disengage congregations. Essentially the researchers approached the participants with a request: “Teach us how you listen to sermons so that we can help ministers become more effective preachers.”
The study asked specific questions derived from Aristotle’s three categories of rhetoric: ethos, logos and pathos. Ethos involves the listener’s perception of the preacher’s character, personality, and trustworthiness during the preaching event. Logos is concerned about the content of the sermon. Pathos involves the role of feelings stirred during the preaching.
The study discovered that people listen to sermons primarily through one of the three rhetorical categories. The researchers found that twenty percent of people listen to sermons primarily through the category of pathos. The listening categories of ethos and logos were evenly divided among the remaining participants, each receiving forty percent.
Footnote:
The congregations in the study belong to the following denominations or Christian movements: African Methodist Episcopal Church, African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church, American Baptist Church, Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, community churches, Church of the Brethren, Episcopal Church, Lutheran (ELCA), Mennonite Church, National Baptist, Presbyterian Church U.S.A., and United Methodist Church. All of the congregations are located in the Midwest and mid-South. Nine of the congregations were predominantly African American; sixteen were predominantly Caucasian.
I really crave the friendship of generations before me. We didn't have that in our last church and I missed it so much. My grandma who died at 91 was one of my best friends. The wisdom and experience that I gain from them is priceless. They have been where I am or might be in life. When we were raising our kids I looked for Godly parents who raised many devoted christian kids as my example of how it can be done. I love the younger generation for so many other things- I love to watch them with their kids and I love how being around them can make me feel younger. { I need all that I can get!} They bring me a differant kind of joy and friendship. I want to experince all ages so I can experince life to the full. I know that is what God intended.
Really neat stuff, Anon!
Here are some interesting things about Timothy. His dad was a Greek (Gentile). Very interesting.
Acts 16:1-5
He came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived, whose mother was a Jewess and a believer, but whose father was a Greek. The brothers at Lystra and Iconium spoke well of him. Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek. As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey. So the churches were strengthened in the faith and grew daily in numbers.
Was Timothy shy and lacking confidence? A “mirror reading” (reading the opposite of what is said one should do) of our text suggests that Timothy was a little lacking in some areas. Notice this text, as you think about this possibility:
1 Corinthians 16:10,11
If Timothy comes, see to it that he has nothing to fear while he is with you, for he is carrying on the work of the Lord, just as I am. No one, then, should refuse to accept him. Send him on his way in peace so that he may return to me. I am expecting him along with the brothers.
My ADD got the best of me when I saw this headline Snellville Man Dies after Butting Heads with Armless Man.
Here is an interesting passage about Timothy and about Paul.
1 Corinthians 4:17
For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.
This passage brings back to mind last week’s passage and sermon. Paul is confident that his teaching and his life align. The connecting piece, of course, is Scripture. Paul is consistent, a man of integrity. Part of Timothy’s message will be how Paul’s encounter with Christ has transformed him (Paul, but also Timothy). In the slightly broader Corinthian context Paul is claiming to be the “father” of the Corinthian Christians. Interesting. Paul also sees himself in that same paternal role with Timothy.
Philippians 2:22
But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel.
What do you think of that?
This weekend something new happened in my life and I would love to share it with you. A month ago I met a mother of 4 ½ (grandson she is raising) on bearshare and she was telling me about how she believed in God and how at one point she was going to church and trying to do right. When her uncle died she stopped going to church and backslid. On the phone I kept hearing her daughter calling her mother a lier and a fake so I asked Vanessa could I talk with her daughter (Amanda). Amanda had some pretty negative things to say about her mother on the phone dealing with her Christian walk and Amanda herself admitted that her walk with God is not what it is suppose to be. What I thought was going to be a five minute conversation turned into an 45 minute conversation. Amanda had talked about her uncle and how her faith went down hill after he died. She had asked me when was I coming down because she wanted to meet me in person instead of talking on the phone. Her son had a football game to play Saturday so she invited me to come down to watch him play. I talked with Vanessa and told Vanessa I would come down on Friday since the football game was early Saturday morning. Friday afternoon, close to evening when I got to Vanessa house, it was just Vanessa and her grandson there. Five minutes later her mother, her oldest son and her brother came in and after introducing me to her family, her mother started asking questions after questions after questions. We had church that day and there was a lot of things that Vanessa uncle had taught them that was so untrue. Vanessa had an abortion a few years ago and her uncle told her that this was a unforgivable sin and that she would go to hell for it and everybody believed that. She said that her uncle showed her in the bible where murder was a unforgivable sin and her whole family believed what her uncle had said. so I told them to show it to me. We looked in the concordance under murder and went through the bible and couldn’t find it. I asked her family, if what you say is true, do you believe that Moses is in heaven. Everybody was so quick to say they believe but everyone got real quiet when I asked them how can Moses be in heaven since he killed a slave driver? If you believe that a person who murders someone can’t make it to heaven than there is no way that Moses could make it to heaven. They knew what the bible said about blasphemy but they also believed what the uncle had taught them as well. Not to make the whole weekend story long because there was a lot of things talked about in those three days that I was there but when I left there Sunday afternoon, I left their knowing that God was there with me for those three days. Vanessa had e-mailed me that night telling me how much her family really enjoyed having me come down and spend the weekend with them. Her son wasn’t all that happy cause he had to sleep on the couch while I slept in his bedroom. Even though I did not have the money to drive down to Evansville Friday, I am very happy that I went. I learned a lot that weekend sitting and listening to Vanessa family. Learning why they believe the things they do. Each and every night when I go to bed I pray for Vanessa and her family because they are struggling spiritually. I told Vanessa before I left, you have a four year old grandson that you are raising. God has given you a second chance to do right. Raise him the way God says to raise him. Teach him about the word and if you are having problems dealing with a situation pray and ask God to reveal it to you.
If you haven't already, then you should read all of 2 Timothy. It will only take a (very) few minutes.
I think you can do it HERE.
Getting ready to go work in the food pantry for a couple of hours. This is actually becoming one of my favorite things to do all week. I enjoy talking with the people who come for food, and I enjoy visiting with the workers.
Tuesday is one of my favorite days of the week. The morning is one of the few times during the week that I have some discretion about what to do. I usually study, which is one of my favorite things.
If you are really good I will tell you what I think of each day... Yes, I do have impressions and concepts of each day of the week. Weird. Yes, I know.
Allen,
I think Common Ground (CG) tries to be cutting edge because (so it seems) thats what we're looking for (or at least what Broad Rippleians are looking for). Many of us have been burned by the "traditional" church and are seeking something that wont leave us in the dark or turn us away. (By all means, I think our church is pretty accepting of people...this is just a gernalization of the 20-30 year old generation and not backed by research! :O) I think CG stays cutting edge by using worship songs that are frequently heard on the Christian radio station and they use a worship band. (Its lively and evokes emotion, but some would say its too much like a concert)
They also preach the scriptures straight forward (I sensed that the pastors attitude was "look this is what the bible says...If you have a problem with it, then you have a problem with God not me) I think this helped my generation "get it" more because it was just thrown at you.
They also had small groups, which if you cant tell, I'm a HUGE fan of. The groups helped us dig deeper into the word and really understand what it means and what we are supose to do with it as a generation in the 21st century.
I think CG did these things out of necessity because their audiance was my generation because after all, that is who lives in Broad Ripple. I think their "program"/"focus" would be different if the church was located somewhere else like Mitchell. Just the same, I think our church would have a different "program"/"focus" if we were located in Broad Ripple.
To reach the people we have to be amongst them and know what makes them work. I think MCOC is doing a great job at doing that very thing and its evident in the way our church is structured and continuing to strive to meet the congrigations needs. (sorry for the book... I tried to condence!)
ee
Thanks, Erin, for all that really good and interesting information!
While there are many positives in targeting a homogenous group (e.g. same generation), what do guys see as the weaknesses or negatives of such an approach?
It’s Wednesday. The Long Day of each week. I get up at my usual 5.30ish and don’t quit until around 8.30 when I get home from class. Although I like all that happens on a Wednesday, it may be my least favorite day simply due to its length. It wears me out. Again, I like all that happens, so I keep doing it. My class this evening is probably my favorite thing that happens on a Wednesday, so it’s a good way to end the (long) day.
Here’s something for you to try. Say these words a few times and think about them:
This is the day the Lord has made; I will rejoice and be glad in it. (Psalm 118:24)
Whatever happens conduct yourself in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ. (Philippians 1:27)
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer. (Psalm 19:14)
I make it my goal to please Him. (2 Corinthians 5:9)
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. (Jesus Prayer from Orthodox tradition)
My sabbatical is starting to take shape. It looks like my last Sunday before it begins is December 16th, and then I will resume my work with you on March 16th. The “western” trip to Australia and New Zealand is already set. We leave on December 26th at 6 a.m. We’ll be “down under” for about 2 weeks, visiting places where I lived for several years.
The “eastern” trip is shaping up and is about finalized. I will be gone for about a month to Moscow and Turkey. It looks like I am also going to spend a little time in Greece, specifically Athens. Greece and Turkey are very close, geographically speaking, and I am now becoming hopeful that I may get to see some of the Pauline sites in Greece, places like Philippi and Corinth. Not sure about all that yet, but it is now a possibility.
Thursday. This is sermon prep day–the day when I bring it to completion. [Sometimes I don't get it finished until Friday or Saturday, but I don't like that.] I really work on it all week in some way or another. My Wednesday evening “Listening For God” class is a key component in the preparation, because it helps me discern what others feel is important. Plus I just get so many amazing insights that I don’t see on my own.
Last night’s class was really good. There was a lot of good engagement, insight, and discussion. I hope I can harness some of the energy and thoughts presented.
I continue to find that my collaborative/communal approach to teaching very interesting. There is an “unpredictableness” to it that keeps it fresh and interesting. I really never know how it is going to go. It usually goes very well but not always. That’s part of risk involved, I suppose.
Today is a little unusual for a Thursday. Kedra and I are going to leave around 11 to go see Kay, Anna Belle, and Lester. We hope to end up in Seymour to watch Rebecca play volleyball at Trinity Lutheran around 6 p.m.
Speaking of Rebecca... She had a “blonde moment” last night. The TV was on, and there was something on about O.J. Simpson. As the report went on it mentioned the famous white Bronco chase. Rebecca, hearing that, asked, “Was the bronco a car or a horse?” We all had a very good laugh, especially as we imagined O.J. riding a white bucking bronc through the streets of L.A. with police in slow-mo pursuit. Cowboy up! Yeehaw.
Everyone is invited to our house on Saturday at 2:00 for a seed, plant and bulb exchange. It should be a pretty day. I know the yard sale is that day too so maybe you can do both and oh, yes the Persimmon Festival too, so maybe all three. I have a number of 'survivors' (flowers) even though we had little rain this summer. The North Lawrence Water Office appreciates me alot. And I them. Even if you don't have anything to exchange, just come and visit with all of us. The more the merrier. Bill and I will go to great lengths to get people to our house for any reason, we just love to visit with all of you. Phone 812 279-2747 if you need directions. Love, Sherron
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