Just to get us started:
- I am finishing up my Lilly Clergy Renewal Program grant this week. It is a fairly complicated application, but I think I’ve about got it under control. I’ve been happy that everyone is so supportive. I guess Duane is right, "Hey, Allen, it’s an easy thing for us to accept; you’ll be gone for 3 months." I will share more details of my proposal later on. Not only will this sabbatical, if I get it, benefit me, but it will also benefit the entire congregation.
- The Leadership Team is discussing some exciting Sunday night ideas. The new quarter begins in March, and we are thinking of offering 3-4 options. Again, this is tentative, but we are thinking about offering a Marriage Matters Seminar class, using the curriculum we purchased from Jerry and Lynn, a roundtable class that discusses the sermon, Upper Room worship, and a textual Bible class. Thought? Ideas?
- What books are you reading? I have started a little book on philosophy, How to do Things with Words. It is about performative language.
- What else?
55 comments:
Tony and I (along with other 328 participants) got an email from the Mountain Mist directors yesterday. Here is what it says:
Trail Runners
It's time for another Mountain Mist Trail Run, 31 miles of rocks, mud and hills - maybe even a little ice or snow. The weather seems to be the biggest concern from year to year. We will just hope for the best. It looks like it will be really cold!
You are the one responsible for entering this race, you better be prepared for the course itself. The rocks will have no mercy. I have seen this course rip apart many a "good trail runner." Mountain Mist is trail running in its finest form. No one is ever let down, just shut down, beaten up, broken and left bleeding. You first timers beware, this course may cause you bodily harm. Even though you have entered the race and paid the fee...YOU CAN STILL BACK OUT! No one will laugh at you, just tell them your family still needs you and you want to continue running in the future, they'll understand! Otherwise, "know your limits and then completely ignore them."
I think I am now officially “skeered.”
Ditto on the "skeered"
Tony
What in the world is "performative language"?
Donna
"skeered"!
you big weanies!
i think this is so cool. i am so excited for you both. (of course the person with sanity in my house thinks i am insane for encouraging you too and feeling like i am missing out) can not wait to hear about this adventure.
right now i am not reading any books of great intellectual impact. i am ready a book about bicycling, a book about famous americans in today's society that had a athletic background as well as a reagan book that is his notes and drafts of speaches and radio addresses. that last one is close to being stimulating but not really something to make me think. time to read a new one!
the ideas for the next quarter sound good to me. i am always up to a challenge.
i know this has been in the bulletin but want to put in a plug here that the education ministry is looking to make some improvements in the process of teaching classes. to work it will need participation. i also want to publically thank the great group of ladies i have to work with on this ministry. with out them, it would never happen! they are a great blessing to me and the church.
RR
Ive been reading "Early Christian Doctrines" by J.N.D. Kelly. All about the first 500+ years of the church, how theology developed, etc. Some of the early church fathers held views that were, um, rather surprising. Makes me wonder, tho. How much does/should theology develop over time?
Donna
Everyone always gives a seminar for married people, how about a seminar for single adults? Single people need guidance on life, problems, single parenthood and dating issues (if they date). I know divorce is not good, but some of us did not have a choice in the matter and have to deal with it. G.B.
I know how you feel GB. Its not easy being a single parent. I always felt left out on the dinners for eight and the classes for married people.
There is also a need for single mothers who need little things, like something heavy moved, lawns mowed or other like things that come up. This probably applies to some older folks also. Its not easy to ask for help out of the blue. I know we have tried things before like the leaf raking to help folks out. I always thought it would be a good ministry for the older teens (or anyone else?).
If there are any single mothers out there who need a break (which they rarely get especially if they don't have family around) or anyone else for that matter, please feel free to ask me for help. I will gladly help if I can. If you are sick and having a hard time with the kids, call me.
Annette
I am personally really excited about the change in Sunday nights and the possibility of small groups. My church in college revolved around the small group, we met once a week in someone's home and fellowshiped together and studied the previous week's sermon. I've missed the closeness I had with my group. Yeah, I'm close with some people at church that I see every week or go to Sunday School with, but there is nothing like the closeness that developes via meeting in someones home. I think people really open themselves up when they welcome you into their home. People are different when they aren't at church and you can really get to know the real "them."
If you are really interested in learning about performative language or utterances, then click HERE. I am kinda intrigued by it but do not claim to understand it all that well. I do like stretching my old mind, however. The Austin book was suggested to me early on in my doctoral thesis work, but then my focused changed. I kept the book, however, and finally decided to read it.
Thanks, Ryan, for your encouragement even though you have been encouraged to discourage. Ha ha ha. I am so funny...
Church history is messy! But I like it. So many crucial things we hammered out in early church counsels. I think, in some ways, theology is ever evolving, at least how we apply it in our particular context. [This does not suggest that truth changes.] There is a book by Luke Timothy Johnson that speaks to this in a very fine way, Scripture & Discernment - Decision Making in the Church. This book was an eye-opener for me, a few years ago. He speaks a lot about the Gentile controversy and how it was solved through Spirit-led collaboration between various parties. Fascinating stuff!
I think a Singles Ministry is interesting. I am very open to hearing your thoughts and ideas. We used to have one here (kinda) several years ago. Often singles ministries end when a few key people meet someone and get married. At least that’s what I think happens sometimes. How many singles do we have? And could we pull people in from other places? I am listening.
Hey, I like the small group encouragement. That was neat thing to hear. Thanks for sharing!
(re:performative language)Good heavens, Allen! Somebody wrote a book about THAT?! And, you're READING IT?! What's next, "The Wonderful World of Conjunctive Phrases"?:0)
Donna
I've already read that one. Language fascinates me. Proverbs 18:21 - The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit. God speaks the world into existence. God is word. Our culture, probably like most others, has really cheapened language. Enough of that...
Hey, what about Tony Dungy and others opening professing their faith the other night? How cool is that? I loved what Dungy said about winning without using profanity and berating players (more language issues). I have always been troubled by the bad behavior of Christians in the sporting environment. Dungy consistently shows there is another way.
Allen, I too was very impressed with Dungy after the game. He is a class act and it filters over to his players too. The players were so "calm" and appreciative of what had been accomplished. They actually showed some humiliaty, which in professional sports is a rare thing.
Today, I heard the new Steelers coach being interviewed ( Tomlin I believe) and his first words were; " I am bless to be here because this is not my plan but God's and that is comforting to know." Wow!
So are you carbo loading this week? A lot of potatos, pasta and bread? Last time I was in Huntsville to run the marathon, we went to a store to buy breakfast food prior to the race. One of buddies bought some bagels and as he checked out he had this funny look on his face. He was shocked at how much they were. We all laughed at him and on the way back to the hotel somebody pulled them out of the bag and they were "Atkin's bagels"; LOW CARB! of course that made it even funnier. They were nasty too!
RR
This is for the parents that attend church with their children. If this is not you, then you have no need to be offended. Sunday I was sitting in the back trying to listen to the church service but it was pretty hard to hear much since there was two little boys sitting behind me playing instead of learning. in truth, you cant learn anything if you are playing. Church is schooling. The preacher teach, we listen and learn. WARNING: last week I got up and moved. No longer will I move but will do what you fail to do and that is nicely turn around and tell your kid in a nice soft voice to kindly be quiet. That will be a sign for you to do what I shouldnt have to do. If that doesnt work, I will be happy to embarrass you by yelling at you and then tell you, God is still working on me in this area of my life. So parents, if you do not allow your kids to act up in school, respect the Lord's house as well. From Gino Hunter
Oh Gino! I am going to have to give you the Wooden Spoon Award. It is awarded to those who like to stir things up! You’re gonna have mad mamma’s all over you, so let me try my hand at being a peacemaker. Probably the place to start is here: Sunday was very unusual. Nursery and BAT were disrupted, and many other things were out of routine.
It’s really tough knowing what to do with kids in the assembly. I really don’t mind the noise all that much. If a child gets louder than me, I just stop (ha ha). We had some visitors on Sunday; some may have had small children who are not used to church. I wouldn’t want to be critical of them. They’re just learning.
I do understand your frustration. I have been meetings/assemblies where I could not hear very well, due to noise. I think it is best to try position yourself away from noising kids. Tolerance is the key, yet again. I’m glad noisy kids are in the assembly. They’ll quiet down as time goes on.
And, Gino, I’m glad you’re in the assembly also. We love you.
Dale Kendall sent me this. Get the Kleenex out.
A Touching Elephant Story
In 1986, Mkele Mbembe was on holiday in Kenya after graduating from Northwestern University. On a hike through the bush, he came across a young bull elephant standing with one leg raised in the air. The elephant seemed distressed, so Mbembe approached it very carefully. He got down on one knee and inspected the elephant's foot and found a large piece of wood deeply embedded in it. As carefully and as gently as he could, Mbembe worked the wood out with his hunting knife, after which the elephant gingerly put down its foot. The elephant turned to face the man, and with a rather curious look on its face, stared at him for several tense moments. Mbembe stood frozen, thinking of nothing else but being trampled. Eventually the elephant trumpeted loudly, turned, and walked away.
Mbembe never forgot that elephant or the events of that day. Twenty years later, Mbembe was walking through the Chicago Zoo with his teenaged son. As they approached the elephant enclosure, one of the creatures turned and walked over to near where Mbembe and his son Tapu were standing. The large bull elephant stared at Mbembe, lifted its front foot off the ground, then put it down. The elephant did that several times then trumpeted loudly, all the while staring at the man.
Remembering the encounter in 1986, Mbembe couldn't help wondering if this was the same elephant. Mbembe summoned up his courage, climbed over the railing and made his way into the enclosure. He walked right up to the elephant and stared back in wonder. The elephant trumpeted again, wrapped its trunk around one of Mbembe's legs and slammed him against the railing, killing him instantly.
Probably wasn't the same elephant.
Re: carbo loading
Oh, yes, the blessedness of carbo-loading. I remember back in the 80's when I was running marathons that Gatorade came out with carbo-loading drink called “Gater-load” or something like that. It was like drinking molasses. Nasty! I am finding that ultra trail running nutrition strategy is quite different from road marathons. You actually eat quite a bit while running. Some even suggest up to 300 calories per hour. I am probably going to do about 200 per hour. Tony and I have been experimenting. I have a couple of granola bars that I like, along with hard candy, and peanut butter crackers. Tony eats PBJ’s. It truly is an adventure and gives a whole new meaning to the expression, “eat and run.”
Good Morning everyone. I was looking through my books last night and found one my mother had given me published in 1925. It was the Tribune Star (Terre Haute newspaper) Cooking School Cook Book. The narative in front was so interesting and the recipe for cream of tomato soup that I loved and my mother used to make was inside. Neat. I craved it before Brent was born and she taught me how to make it then but had lost the recipe and now it is found. I'm sure she is smiling from Heaven. I also found an old book of poems and inside the following struck a cord for me today. It is called THE MASTER PLAYER. An old, worn harp that had been played till all its strings were loose and frayed, Joy, Hate, and Fear, each one essayed, to play. But each in turn had found no sweet responsiveness of sound. Then Love the Master-Player came with heaving breast and eyes aflame; The Harp he took all undismayed, smote on its strings, still strange to song, and brought forth music sweet and strong. Paul Laurence Dunbar. And that is how I am chosing to begin my day. I hope yours has begun that way too. Love you all. Sherron
This message is in regards to what Gino said.
I understand your frustration, but it was just as much of a distraction when you got up and moved. It caught my attention and I couldn't tell you what Allen said while you was shuffling into your new seat.
As a mother, I speak from experience when I say that our children do not always do what we want them to do. Jayda has been brought up in the Church and there are still times I need to remind her to quit down. Actually there are times I need to quit down and pay more attention.
It disturbs me that you would be so offended by children being noisy and not paying attention. Isn't church the place we all need to be, even if we don't act the way others think we should act.
I have no idea who the children are that you are speaking of but I'm just happy they were in church.
We are always going to have distractions during church. Whether it is someone coughing, a baby crying, people getting up, those who fidget or people talking, it is our obligation to be welcoming to all who come and do our best not to offend them by yelling at them to pipe it down. How many people can we win over with a bad attitude? No many! So I hope you reconsider telling someone to keep their child/children under control. Doesn't sound like the message we are trying to generate as a church family. I hope this doesn't offend you in any way, I just wanted to share my thoughts about this subject. Jamie
great!
some one else got the wooden spoon award besides me!! yippie.
interesting post
first, i think that gino represents something we should all strive to do. he is being very honest and open as to his feelings and his thoughts. i am sure most if not all of us have harbored thoughts or feelings of similar nature but never voiced them. we just kept them bottled up and let them eat at us.
Another point I saw in Gino's post that I wanted to point out was that he recognized that he had an area in his life that God wasn't through with yet. Again, big to admit.
Jamie, understand you too being distracted by Gino's attempt to remove his distraction. Each of have different methods that we learn or absorb information. How many of you watch TV differently than your spouse? My spouse has to look directly at the TV with no other stimulus and unless you raise your voice or change the channel, she tunes out everything else. I on the other hand, read a book, while watching TV, etc. Doesn't phase me at all.
Each of us are different and each of us come into God's house a little different mindset each week and each have different needs. To work as a family unit we have to work toward a compromise. Gino is right that the kids do need to be respectful to God, others and church and as Jamie says we need to present an atmosphere that says "welcome". Hard to bridge the gap and hard to please everyone but that is all part of it.
From my parent standpoint, I have never been one to make a public scene with my kids. First, I think that causes a bigger disturbance as well as embarrasses the child. My discussion has always been afterwards. Making them sit down look me in the eye and tell me what they think they did wrong. That has worked in my case.
Thanks for sharing and thanks for feeling comfortable enough to share opposing views.
RR
Wow! Wise words, Ryan. Thanks.
I have been thinking a little more about this. I can recall a few years back when Kedra would wrestle with our kids throughout the whole assembly. [I believe this was when we working with the Shoals church.] I remember her saying, sometimes with tears, “I don’t know why I even bother to go to church. All I do is wrestle with the kids. I don’t hear or see anything.” I think most everyone who has children feels this way at some point, and some just choose not to come.
I think presence, even with limited participation, says a lot about commitment and desire. I want to honor that and encourage that. It sets a good example for all of us, I think.
Go easy on Gino. He confesses he is learning/growing. I really like what Ryan said about that. The formation of true community is messy, and that’s why it doesn’t happen very easily or often. We really are making progress, and fairly free expression of thought is helpful. An environment where there is no conflict or disagreement is artificial and does not allow the opportunity to honor God through true unity born out of diversity.
While I was watching the football games last weekend, my wife and I got into a conversation about life and death, and the need for living wills.
During the course of the conversation I told her that I never wanted to exist in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine and taking fluids from a bottle.
She got up, unplugged the TV and threw out all my beer.
Gino, I'm sorry if I came accross harsh. It is important that we can be open with one another here on the blog. That is why I signed my name. My rule is, if I'm ashamed to put my name on the end of my message, than maybe it should not be written. It is hard to solve differences if we are voicing our opinions but no one knows who we are.
I truly appreciate your messages and like that you always sign your name. Believe you me, if it was R.R. that wrote that post I would have blogged the exact same thing. No offense R.R. :)
On a serious note, I should have been more understanding of your blog but I'm so protective of our youth I would not want anyone offending them to the point they believe church is a bad place.
The church I grew up in was so layed back I believe I played tic tac toe during church until I was in my mid 30's. No just kidding. My point is. I started to listen to the word when I was ready. Not when I was made to. And I believe that is what has made me what I am today. "NOT RIGHT-NOT WRONG-BUT OH SO DIFFERENT" :)
Gino, thanks again for your blog. It got me going today. Thanks,Jamie
I can relate to the young mothers with small children trying to keep them quiet in church. When ours were young, I felt like after I got home that I barely heard anything trying to focus on keeping Jason on my lap and entertained and quiet. I pulled him and Brent many times from under the pew and constantly looked for creative ways with the help of a good friend who sat with us to occupy them. I admire the mothers and grandmothers for the tenacity it takes to continue. Many would say, 'what's the use' and give up or never try to start with. I guess I just don't pay attention to noise or commotion around me because it just doesn't bother me. Having worked most of my life in jobs with movement all around and noise has helped me to get into my 'zone' and focus on the job at hand and I guess that has helped. We are all, as Ryan said coming from different situations and have diverse views in so many areas and the beauty of everyone from all this diversity coming together in harmony as a family is truly a gift from God and we are so blessed at Mitchell with the tolerant and loving family we enjoy. Every soul in the assembly is precious and loved by God and He is pleased that we have come to praise and worship him from whatever situation we are in. He will help us all to grow and learn from each other in love. How blessed we are to be able to express our feelings openly without fear of being rejected. That is how God loves, without reservations when we come to him with our needs large and small. Love is the answer always. Thank you all for your wise words and encouragement to everyone in the discussion. Praying fervently for Ryan T today and his family as they struggle with his situation.
THE BOOK OUR MOTHERS READ:
We search the world for truth; we cull the good, the pure, the beautiful, from graven stone and written scroll, and all old flower-fields of the soul; and, weary seekers of the best, we come back laden from the quest, to find that all the sages said is in the Book our mothers read. John Greenleaf Whittier Love you all, Sherron
Sherron,
You are so wise! I have so much to learn from you. You are a wonderful example of how we should all act and feel. Stop blushing and take this compliment!!! I mean it from the bottom of my heart. You are a great lady and loved by many, including myself! Thanks again, Jamie
Wow, I just got up and I was really dreading reading the blog. Thanks Ryan, 'Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall see God'(I hear this in audio in my head, its from a record about johnny appleseed I listened to a million times as a kid).
Some of you remember the stuggles I had with Luke at church (who am I kidding, everyone remembers). I too remember feeling after church so very frustrated, one for the embarrassment, two for not getting to listen when I was starving to hear. I want to thank all those who helped me back then, you all suppored me when my family turned their backs, you became my true family. I love you all.
Annette
One more thing. Poor Gino, little did he know when God sent him here he was jumping from the fire into the frying pan...ie: luke. Not funny but fitting, he will get lots of practice dealing with disruptive kids, God moves in mysterious ways.
Annette
(Come on admit it, some of you were thinking this)
Annette,
You make me laugh!
Jamie
I think this would be a good place for a trey story. Apparently(last sunday) my dear and muched loved son was standing in the church pews and jumping over the backs from pew to pew(one of my favorite things to do when i was a kid), when all of a sudden a man named Steve Gilstrap walked upon the situation. Steve, i hear, sternly told trey not to do this or to stand in the seats. Not realizing that trey has to be told anything 4 times before he hears it, Steve actually expected trey to obey. So after repeating himself a couple times trey gets down and on all fours goes as fast as he can under the pews. This, folks, is not only the son that i love but one of the gentlemen of the church that i love. Steve never came to me disgusted about my child, he simply helped me out by letting trey know this was not proper. I wish he would have made trey sit until a parent came over, but Steve chose to leave all discipline to the parents. I once told the congregation that the church is a part of my family and i expect their help in the raising of my children, i think Steve is a great example of a brother in Christ. I hope when he talked to trey he thought of what he was doing for me and for trey and not just that he is a rotten kid. Trey has been mildly punished and also knows that wed night he owes Steve an apology for not listening to an adult. I don't know what anyone may get from this and if you too are wondering then get this: If we will all lovingly assist each other as family members, then we are not only serving God, but also each other. tw
On most Sunday mornings, I leave the worship hour feeling like my children and I have been players in a very loud circus held on the second row of the FLC. I, like Kedra, have been near tears many times...in some ways it is the most stressful hour of my week. As Annette said, it's frustrating b/c I didn't get to pay attention as I would like to, and also b/c I feel bad that we are such a disruption to everyone around us. (I have to say here that it's funny to me that Gino actually moved TO the same row I was in with my children on Sunday morning!). After reading the blog this morning, I thought of all the people whose worship we disrupt each week. I am sure there are some people who are irritated by our distractions, but no one has ever said anything negative to me. However, many people have made efforts to encourage me. Many moms (Kedra, Jamie Young, Laura B, Paula T...) who have teenage children have reminded me that this is a wonderful and short time in my life as a parent. People who have grown children (Noble and Phyllis, Wayne and Neva, David and Linda, Duane and Dorene...) encourage me because they see my children as charming and amusing even after a rough worship hour...a good reminder for me that my children are very small and in need of much love and training. Where else could I get this kind of encouragement and community if not from this church family? Thank you to everyone who encourages the mammas of the church...your kind words and smiles are appreciated more than you can know, and your attitudes encourage us to love and serve other people.
I came across an interesting, thought-provoking article this morning entitled, Email from the Grave? Microsoft seeks patent on ‘Immortal Computing’. Here are a couple of excerpts:
In this culture of instant information, some Microsoft Corp. researchers are pursuing a radical notion -- the concept of saving messages for delivery in decades, centuries or more.
The project, dubbed "immortal computing," would let people store digital information in physical artifacts and other forms to be preserved and revealed to future generations, and maybe even to future civilizations.
One scenario the researchers envision: People could store messages to descendants, information about their lives or interactive holograms of themselves for access by visitors at their tombstones or urns.
And here's where the notion of immortality really kicks in: The researchers say the artifacts could be symbolic representations of people, reflecting elements of their personalities. The systems might be set up to take action -- e-mailing birthday greetings to people identified as grandchildren, for example.
To read the entire article you can click HERE.
What do think of this? Would you like deceased ones to send you birthday cards? Do you want to go to a cemetery and “see” them in hologram form? Is memory better? I wonder what this would do to memory?
Good morning all!
I couldn't wait to get to work to check out the posts. You didn't disappoint me. Some beautiful words there. I think it shows the love the church family has. ( except for jamie :) ha ha got ya!)
Annette, I think Luke is a perfect example of how God works in all of our lives or even possibly symbolic of our lives as Christians. In the begining we are rough, defiant and slow to learn. We don't go from sin ( bad behaviour) to angelic (sitting a pew and being quite) in one session. It takes time. We are always a work in progress. Just like Luke. I was so impressed a while back when I saw him and how polite he was and we had a conversation and he was very sincere and it was great to see the young man he is becoming. Great example. Annette, thanks for sharing him with us, thanks for being Annette and being part of our family. To me you are a great example of perserverance!
Michelle, I love your line about a circus! too funny.
TW, was Trey acting like you did? Ha ha.
Allen, with respect to your post, that is just plain wierd. Although, I did have a very dear aunt die a couple years ago and my dad found birthday cards on her desk already addressed and written out. that was really special.
Have a great day all. ( you too jammie!)
RR
Hey Allen, I will be happy to take the wooden spoon award..I was not trying to stir things up and of course I have a nice pair of boxing gloves on me as I type, so I am ready to rumble. I can say without a doubt, if I had passed out a survey having everyone sign who believes children shouldnt be talking during the service, about 90 percent of the church would sign it in a heartbeat..I just happened to be the one to speak on it..infants and children up to first grade, I understand so that does not bother me. I am talking about kids who knows better. If the teachers doesnt allow it in school (and we know they dont), they shouldnt be allow to do it in church. I am sticking with what I said and like I said, I have my boxing gloves on so if you are ready to rumble..bring it baby..haha..should I bring my Mama said knock you out music with me?
I have debated blogging this week due to the fact that I don't want my heart to speak for me instead I want the spirit to speak for me. So after prayer, here it goes. Gino, first I would like to say I appreciate your honesty and that your were "man" enough to sign your name to the blog. I also want to say I am sorry if my children have disturbed your worship. We young mothers try to "entertain" our children and yet still try to listen to Allen and the word of the Lord. There are many of Sunday mornings I come away from church more stressed out than when I first came. It shouldn't be that way, but like Michelle I am reminded by many other "experienced" mothers that this too will pass. Please be patient with us and know that alot of us young mothers are dealing with guilt, anxiety, loss of self, tiredness....atleast this mother is.
Joni Mathews
It's kinda funny. Other people worry about how loud their kids are, and I rarely notice. I can, truly, only think of maybe twice in the last several years that I've noticed anybody else's kids acting up, and those people were visitors. When Tyler was little, though, he was such a "spirited child" (to use Gary's euphemism) that I was always sure all eyes were on us. I suspect I was wrong.
Gino, old bean, I'm going to give you a piece of advice. Forget about it. Attempting to discipline other peoples' children is inappropriate, and unnecessary. Find someplace else to sit. Personally, I've always wanted to sit right infront of Allen and make faces at him during the sermon, but I suspect Todd wouldn't like it. Sorry if this rambled on a bit, but I'm knackered on cold medicine and haven't slept in a acoupole of days.
Donna
I love the word "knackered!" I used to hear that in New Zealand.
You would think that it would be hard to keep digging with boxing gloves on?
Let me say to all you struggling, frustrated moms: I love you, admire you, appreciate you, sympathize with you, repect you deeply. A little noise does not bother me. It's just part of the deal. It will pass! I would say 90+ percent would agree with how I feel.
Just keep loving each other!
Hello All,
My children are old enough to know better and I still have to remind them to quiet down. They are kids, and kids will be kids...and we can't ask anything else from them. I too have left many a church service feeling VERY stressed...still do sometimes. It does get easier though...and all you mommy's out there just keep loving your children and things will get easier. Enjoy this time with them because they grow up so fast. I personally like to hear the noise of little ones b/c I know they are where they need to be and are being brought up to serve the Lord and are with a loving church family to help guide and love them. I would also like to say that if any mothers out there ever need a hand just give me a yell...I would love to help you out in any way I can.
Gino I do respect your opinion and like that you feel comfortable enough to share how you feel...just keep in mind we are doing the best we can.
I would just like to thank everyone for their words of wisdom...I look up to so many people in this church family and my family and I are so blessed to be here.
Melissa
Since TW shared a Trey story I will share one on my boys. When Lester and Luke were little, I often wrestled them by myself in worship, usually feeling my efforts were in vain. One Sunday after a rather difficult time of worship, my dear friend, Dale Kendall (he was sitting right behind me) gave me a quarter. When I looked puzzled he said, with a grin and a pat on my back, "It's thanks for the show". He said my boys reminded him of when his boys were that age and promised me that time would quickly pass...boy, was he right! To you mothers who are struggling right now with little ones in worship: you are doing a wonderful thing teaching your children and believe me, this time will pass all too quickly!
Kedra
Singles Ministry—I feel that a singles, especially the single mothers, need to know that they are not alone. Just knowing that they are not alone in their struggles is a big help. I know that the Bible has encouraging things to say to help. Maybe through a group these people can learn from similar experiences and locate sources for the help they need. I’m sure that the guys need help also; maybe they need a woman’s point of view to understand something.
If someone meets at a single ministry and get married that’s great, there will be less lonely people in the world. I had heard that the two number one places to meet that special someone is either in church or in a bar.
I would not consider myself to be one of the key people you were talking about, but I don’t look to get hitched for a while.
People from outside of the church may come just for the purpose of meeting others and some for guidance and support. I am not from your church. I know a few people from there and have heard good things. I have wanted to come for a while, but I have issues. One of them is the child issue that you all have been talking about. My kids would not behave, be quiet, or be still, so I gave up church.
Anyway more about the singles ministry. I could help with fliers. Maybe a donation, from the attendees could help provide snacks and activities and possible child care from teens in the church during the ministries. It doesn’t have to be continuing, maybe for a period of 4-6 weeks once per week or something (however you would work something like that). If there are enough people that want to continue beyond that who knows. Maybe we just all need to go to therapy. I have a few more things, but how much can I write? Will I run out of room? Thanks, G.B.
LET ME START BY SAYING THAT I HAVE REALLY ENJOYED READING THE MOTHERS VIEW ON THIS "CHILDREN BEHAVING IN CHURCH" TOPIC.
FOR MICHELE, MY FAMILY SITS RIGHT BEHIND YOU EVERY WEEK AND YOU GUSYS HAVE NEVER DISTRACTED ME. YOUR CHILDREN ARE SO BEAUTIFUL AND YOU DO SUCH A NICE JOB WITH THEM. PLEASE DON'T EVER FEEL LIKE YOU ARE A DISTRACTION. IT IS REALITY. I DO NOT KNOW ANY MOTHER OR FATHER THAT HASN'T FELT DISCOURAGED AT CHURCH WITH THEIR YOUNG ONES.
PAULA T. USED TO TELL ME STORIES ABOUT RYAN AND I COULDN'T HARDLY BELIEVE THEM TO BE TRUE BECAUSE HE HAS GROWN UP TO BE SUCH A NICE YOUNG MAN. PAULA HAS BEEN MY STRENGTH MANY TIMES DURING MY PARENTING STRUGGLES. WE ARE SO BLESSED TO HAVE PEOPLE LIKE HER AND KEDRA (PLUS MANY MORE) THAT CAN OFFER US ADVISE-FROM EXPERIENCE.
JONI, YOUR KIDS ARE SO PRECIOUS TOO. YOU AND MIKE DO SUCH A GREAT JOB WITH THEM. YOUR DAUGHTER BRINGS A SMILE TO MANY FACES WITH HER KIND WAYS. THAT MEANS YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB.
YOU LADIES ARE DOING A MUCH BETTER JOB AT MOTHERHOOD THAN I COULD EVER IMAGINE. I HAVE HAD A HARD TIME WITH ONE AND YOU GUYS MAKE IT LOOK SO EASY WITH 2 & 3 KIDS. I ONLY WISH I HAD THE PATIENCE AND KNOWHOW THAT YOU GUYS DO.
KUDOS TO ALL YOU YOUNG MOTHERS.
JAMIE
I have been to many of churches in the last ten years (when you work in different missions, you get to go and visit a lot of churches) and this is the first church that I attended that has a blog and I love it. Annette is not happy with what I had to say but you know what, after reading the blog this week, I am glad that I said something because it got other people the chance to open up and voice their opinions on matters we probably woulndt have known if something wasnt said..I am a very open person and I guess you can credit that to stand up comedians because they talk about things that a lot of people are embarrassed to talk about. I feel that if you have something to say and you keep it locked away inside of yourself, the only person that is going to hear what you have to say is yourself. In truth, I am not one who would embarrass anyone intentionally because I wouldnt want anyone doing that to me. If we claim to be family (and we are all brothers and sisters in Christ), coming up to a person and asking them nicely to lower their voice should not offend anyone because that is what true family do when someone is disturbing someone. I try to look at different sides of things in life, for example, I had brought a friend too church with me once and he was really excited about going, but when we got there, he heard nothing because the kids in the seats beside us kept laughing and playing around. When we got to the car to go home, I asked him did he enjoy the service, and he told me that he couldnt focus on the word because the kids beside us talked and played around throughout the whole service..when I went to invite him back to church the following week he decided that he didnt want to go anymore. a month later he told me that he found a different church to attend. I was proud that he attended a church but was curious of why he never came back to the church I attended. He told me that he was new in the word and what was the point of going to a church if he couldnt hear the pastor teach. People who are new to the church are coming to get spiritually fed. Some people can ignore children playing and talking in church but at the same time, we should respect those who cant. Before I go, I must comment on people who say that I am man for writing my name on the blog each week. Thank you very much. I write my name in the blog because I am one to speak my mind and have nothing to hide so I say what is on my mind. Thanks again. Sign Gino Hunter
I think having some sort of singles ministry would be such a great idea. I often hear Dr Dobson talk about the wonderful ministry their church has to single moms out in Colorado. I am not looking for a singles ministry as a place to pick up a date. In fact, it might be a good idea to have a single mom's (or female) group and a man's group. That setting would take the pressure off and also set up a totally different dynamic. We could then concentrate on fellowship and perhaps solving some of the mountains that tend to melt away into molehills if you have good company in which to discuss them. It is often so isolating to be a single christian mother especially if the desire of your heart is to raise Godly children. There are so many time pressures and so much physical work that has to be accomplished. I know it is hard for married couples to realized how difficult it is for single moms to get everything done. It's also sad, because when you come home from working all day, there are these beautiful little souls that want to be with you and you are so exhausted.....and when everything quiets down and they are tucked in bed, there is no one with which to discuss all of the worries and cares of day. No one to help you figure out which decision to make. Of course the Lord is always there, but He did set us up to be companions with each other.
Our children are grown now and the little children at church remind us so much of our grandchildren.
A church without children is not a growing church. We are blessed to have young families sharing their children with us.
If we can be patient we will see them grow and learn about Jesus right in front of our eyes.
The last time our 4yr old grandson was here he would whisper to his daddy about the cross while communion was passed. He said daddy Jesus died on the cross but He is alive now and living with God. So you don't know when they are playing and Allen is preaching what they do hear but they are learning.
Remember God loves you and we do too. That is what makes our church family special-- each of us is special in their own way.
Yes you are so right. And lets not forget that single mothers don't make enough money either usually, so add to that financial problems too. Ever try to make a good decision when there is so much going on you don't know which way is up? Its very very hard. Many times I had to make the decision is it milk or medicine. Not much of a choice. And then the ultimate nightmares...babysitting and car problems. There is not enough of you to spread around, ever. Ever notice the praise given to single dads? And everyone seems to want to help single dads, not so with single moms. Single mothers don't get praise much, mostly we get negative comments and judgements made. I remember being so so so sick one time, luke was an infant, I was sick for days. I laid on the floor with luke beside me, so sick I couldn't get up. So many people knew I was sick, including family and besides my landlady bringing over some chili, no one else even checked up on us. And I said to myself, if I ever see a need that someone has I will try my best to help them. It is such an alone feeling, to have little ones depending solely on you and trying to meet their needs, still needing to wash the car, mow the lawn, grocery shop, doctor appts, wash clothes, do hair, cook, clean, give baths etc etc all by yourself. And if I had to do it over again alot of the above would have gone undone more often. I should have spent more time playing with the kids instead of trying to keep everything perfect. They grow up so fast.
None of what I said was meant to be said in a negative way, more like revealing a little reality of what single mothers go through.
Annette
And you are so right too, you never know what the kids are learning.
One more story and I will shut up, uh sorry Jay, I will be quite, lol.
Trying to keep luke occupied in a good manner, he always was wanting someone to spend the night with him. One boy came to church with us who was totally unchurched. Oh I'd say luke was about ten. The boy was asking luke about communion and luke proceeded to tell him all about communion and answer all the boys questions....I was amazed he understood it so well.
Okay I'm done, Annette
Tony Dungy said some pretty neat things yesterday in a press conference, and I think they are instructive for us all. What follows are excerpts from an INDYSTAR.COM article. Talking about his son’s suicide, which happened a little over a year ago, he said:
"For me, I think it was really a test. I think God gives you tests to see if you're going to stay true to what you believe and stay faithful. For me, that's what it was, having to continue to believe. Sometimes when you have disappointments, it makes that final destination that much sweeter.”
In a wide-ranging interview, Dungy revealed that he also drew on his faith and the experience of his son's death when Colts wide receiver Reggie Wayne's brother, Rashad, 32, was killed in a Sept. 24 auto accident in Kenner, La.
“The thing that I told Reggie is you have to enjoy the memories of the time that you had and to know that the thing they would want you to do is continue on with excellence," Dungy said. "That's the only bit of advice I could share with him."
To 11:09 p.m. Anonymous:
Thanks for giving us a very real glimpse of a life that is foreign to some, perhaps many, of us. It made my heart twinge in pain. One of the great strengths of our church family is our empowering leadership. I can’t speak for them, but I am certain that our church would be more than happy to host and help with some kind of singles or single moms ministry. The need is to find a person or persons to take the idea and make it happen. Perhaps there can be some kind of grassroots effort? I am (still) listening and would be happy to meet with anyone.
Wow! It's been a couple of weeks since I've checked out the blog. We're gonna run out of spoons pretty soon!
To Gino's and the young mothers. First of all, if my kids have been responsible (and I'm sure one of them has) for distractions. I am sorry. I don't think we have to narrow distractions down to kids. If I see it or hear about it, they usually are sitting with me the next week. Everyone has their pet-peeve's that can distract them. God made us all different like that. I guess if I could propose any advice, I would have to say, let's build relationships with the kids. My time as a teacher (4-6th graders) has been invaluable. Not only do I learn from them, I have built relationships that will last a lifetime. IF one of the kids that has had me in class is making noise or being disruptive, I might tap tham on the shoulder or give them the quick shush sign (index finger over the lips). You know what, they usually stop making noise and they don't hold a grudge against me. I have a relationship with them. I love these kids, a lot of them like my own. I enjoy seeing them grow. This year the fisrt one's will graduate that I started teaching in Junior High. You know what, they don't have any trouble saying hi to me out in public. I also feel like, it might help them to behave out in the world if there's a chance that they might see me or someone else they respect from church. To tell you the truth, sometimes that helps me stay in line too.
Bottom line - Love, Humility, Compassion, Respect.
Brent
I often think that some of our elderly people in the church could benefit from the same type of help that single moms could use. Those things around the house that are huge projects to some of us are very simple to others. For older people, is is often moving heavy objects, cleaning the leaves out of the gutter or something as small as getting on a ladder to replace light bulbs. Somehow in our society we don't seem to look for these needs in others and certainly don't spend our time trying to make sure our elderly are well taken care of. But, that, of course, is a whole different soap box! I do think the two groups have a lot more in common than what is generally considered. I also think quite a bit of thought needs to be put into what direction a singles group at the MCofC would go. If we review Allen's sermon on divorce, I think we find that it might not be in God's plan to try start a Christian dating service at the church. Just a thought......
If you are easily distracted there really is a very simple solution...sit up front. There are ALWAYS empty seats on the front 3 or 4 rows right in front of Allen. It works in any teaching environment - college, workplace even the theater. Can you even begin to imagine the distractions in Jesus' day? The Son of God is teaching amongst the camels, beggars, lepers, whores, tax collectors, pious people and a whole assortment of diversities, not to mention children. Wow! Try to wrap your mind around that!!
The children are the next generation of believers and it is amazing what they learn when you think they are not listening. Even the babies learn by observing. Having babies and children at church is a sign that your church is alive and has something that actually feeds the people who are coming. If you can attract young families with all the effort it takes to bring their brood, you must be doing something right.
To all the moms of the wigglies, I salute you! You are doing exactly what Jesus would have you do - bringing your babes to the house of the Lord.
I agree with the comment on single fathers getting a lot of praise and the single mothers not. I have been around a lot of people with kids and that is how it plays out. Do you think that people think that they are single fathers because the mother was no good and left him, so he diserves praise. Maybe people think single mothers are single because they are wild. Anyway have you noticed single dads are always at their mothers or having their mother babysit? Singles Ministry- Female and male groups would be good separate, but would also be good together occationally just to let each other know that they are not the enemy. Burned people find it hard to trust in the opposite sex. If they are given the opportunity to see they are not all bad maybe some attitudes will change. I didnt catch the sermon on divorce, can I get a written copy somehow? Like I said before, some of us had no choice but to divorce. Does that make me a bad person? I admit that it is not a good situation for most involved, but there was no choice in the matter. Thanks, G.B.
GB-go to the links on the blog page and the click on divorce sermon-you'll find it there.:)
Getting a divorce is often a fact of life. It's certainly not what we envisioned when we began this journey. We never realized the heartache and pain that would come into our lives. We never really understood that sometimes no matter how much you try, it would never be good enough. People who really, really love the Lord get divorced and , NO!, it doesn't make you a bad person in any way. It makes you a wounded one and one who wants to please God and try to find the way to do that even in the midst of heartbreaking circumstances. I think there is a lot of learning that needs to be done before we start looking for another spouse, especially when there are children involved. We have to know that we belong first to the Lord and it is His responsibility to take care of us. That is what He promised to do. We have to learn to completely trust Him before we even think of looking for someone else. So many 2nd, 3rd etc marriages end up in divorce and that is too much to ask children to bear. Perhaps we should build community with other believers and not be too concerned about another mate. Dr. Laura has some tough teaching on that subject and I often think she also has great understanding.
This email is to "GB" specifically.
Hey, come on to church this week.
You noted the "kid issue", but as you can see from the posts, you are not alone in this and also that there is a lot of passion and understanding with this issue, so don't use that as a reason to not come. Secondly, the idea of a singles type ministry is pretty good. We have an "out reach" ministry and when you come in as a visitor this ministry will work with you and I truly think this is something they will pursue and be open too. Divorice also is not a reason to not come and is this subject you will not be alone in the seats on Sunday as the only person who has went through this. I truly think you will find the family a loveing, understanding and caring group. There is no better support group than what you will find there. See you Sunday!! :)
To everyone else, great discussions this week and I love this dialogue that has been going on this week. Wow. I believe Allen is the one who said it but I think this type of discussion and expression of views is very healthy in our spiritual growth.
We are not perfect and all are a work in progress.
RR
Good morning to all and to all a good morning. I know that after my divorce, I said that I would never ever get married again because I believed in my heart that any woman I would marry would turn out like my ex. When I went to divorce class, I felt out of place because I was the only one divorced (others were seperated) and I was the only male in the class. I believed God had me in that class to not only received the godly counseling but to also let me learn from the women that was in the class. There was one lady who stood out because she made it known that she hated all men just because her husband went out and left her for a younger woman. Each week I had to hear her talk about her husband as if he was the worse man on the face of the earth and too me I found it to be funny because she was the one who married him. It's funny how we look at all the negative things our x spouse has done to us thinking it would make us feel better if we shoot them down, but deep down inside it is killing us cause if that is how we really felt about that person, they would be the one in divorce class and we would be the one divorcing them. I know that I got way off the subject here so anyway, I had done a lot of praying, asking God what I needed to do. God didnt answer me with word but with action. He showed me through the word where I made major mistakes in my marriage and that he was not the one that set my marriage up but I did. he let me know that my marriage was not a fail marriage but a learning tool for the person he has for me when he does supply me with the person he intends for me to marry.WARNING: my biggest problem was turning to marriage counseling books and trying them out with my ex and when that didnt work, I would get an attitude. These books may work for some but they do not work for all. The bible is where you need to turn too because the bible will teach us how to be a husband and of course I read that stuff after the divorce. The last person I dated before Annette, I had prayed and asked God to reveal to me if this is the person I am to be with and he allowed me to see the real person in this person and let me tell you, boy did he reveal a lot. I use to hear people say, He who finds a wife finds a good thing. I come to learn that finding a mate does not mean you are going to find the perfect mate because there is no such thing as a perfect mate. Look at Eve. Laughing out loud. I'm not happy about being divorce, but I am happy that I am with someone who knows the pain and is willing to work out our relationship by communicating with me. Sure we have our disagreement but at the end of the day, we are on the same page and that is what matters. Today I can say without a shadow of a doubt, Annette is more than a friend but she is my best friend. If you say that you trust in God, trust that he will direct your steps when finding a mate that he has suitable for you. they will have their flaws..dont harp on them..communication is a big thing. joking and laughing with and at each other is another thing. we do this a lot and it makes our relationship stronger. well I will end on that note and if you are going through a divorce or have been divorce for sometime now. Trust God and never ever use the words, but what if she/he **** because what you are saying, is, I trust you God, but not fully. Trust in the Lord with all thine heart and lean not on your on understanding, in all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your path. Even through your relationship. What God gives let no man separated. Only we can destroy the gift of God, not God.
Well, I am off to 'Bama in a few minutes. I hope to return with a banjo on my knee, or at least knees on which to place a banjo, if I had one.
What a great week of blogging. Keep going. I will check in down in Alabama.
If I have any energy I will try post tomorrow evening to tell how Tony and I did in our big 50K. If we make it we make it, if not, then we could always lie.
We made it; completed the 50K. I'll have more to say later. It was an amazing experience.
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