Tell me what you think about these verses:
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Has this ever happened to you?
What did you think and/or feel?
I am really interested in your thoughts.
Sunday, October 01, 2006
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26 comments:
I think this serves as an example of what Jesus is talking about. It is hard to imagine this as a blessing, but Jesus says it is. Interesting...
All the way from Poland, a comment from Wayne:
i have a new appreciation for what persecution can be after being at the german concentration camps...being killed because you are the wrong race,religion,a teacheror in the wrong village and picked out as one of ten to be shot..even though ou did no wrong. Gives me a new appreciation of what Jesus did for us on the cross..He that had no sin became sin.for us.
wayne
Recently in August I was doing some volunteer work at an event on the square working with two gentlemen who like to pick quarrels and belittle anyone who share an affiliation with politically and religiously. (As far as I know neither attend church, but they are very active in the community and do alot of work for others and I do respect their knowledge and service.) Their comment that day was that religious people have been lazy and have not taken a strong enough stand against the terrorists, that they should be more like the old testament and do God's work by just wipe them out ourselves. My comment was that Jesus came to show us how better to deal with others who are our enemies with love and compassion. That I have a nephew who fought in Iraq during the invasion and served a year there. That I have friends heading to a foreign land to teach English with the Bible and that I see Christ at work every day in alot of people. Just when they were at their worst a good friend walked up and she and I were cheerfully talking and helping those around us and engaging people in conversation and when they saw that the subject was changed and that I would not engage in any more negative talk, they went for coffee and left. I felt intimidated, ganged up on and angry and defensive all that the same time but in the end God sent the answer. I showed them by example what Jesus came to do. To spread the good news to those who want to hear and see His example here on earth. I do not by any means fulfill all that He wants from me but he gives me each day to wait and watch for opportunities to share Him. My friend who walked up does not attend church anywhere and we are forming a strong friendship. I hope she can see Jesus in me and that will come with me to church sometime. God sent a blessing that day by sending my friend along just in time. I feel no real anger toward the men involved. They just are very opiniated and I still greet them with a smile. Sherron Fields
Interesting story, Sherron, and a good illustration of how to handle a situation that many fnd themselves in from time to time.
Thanks!
Has anyone been faced with a situation where a job promotion was denied because of your faith?
Or what other situations have you found yourself in where these verses would be helpful?
I was talking to some others about this passage. One, a minister, said that he felt this passage may apply internally, to the church. Who were the chief critics of the prophets? The people to whom they preached??
Sometimes, even in the church, there is a great deal of criticism (persecution?)when we try to take a stand for Jesus that is different from "the way we have always done it." As I think about it, I have had more trouble from people inside the church than those on the outside. Some of it has been incredibly painful. I did't feel blessed at the time!
Do you think this beatitude is to be applied internally? Why do some people get so bent out of shape about change? Why are they so mean about it? How/why is this a blessing?
People may resist change in worship for a variety of reasons. Some may simply be ornery, but for many, "the way we've always done it" has meaning and value. Whenever I'm confronted with change, I always wonder "Why is this change necessary? Is it really beneficial, or is it just to appease people who're bored?" Nobody has the right to be nasty and mean to those who work for beneficial change, but we also need to be sensitive to those for whom the "old ways" are meaningful. Also, I think ritual and sacrament are hugely important in worship. We didn't have a lot of rituals in the Presbyterian Church, but the few we did have were instrumental in getting my head where it needed to be for worship. Maybe, for these people who cling to the past, it's sort of the same thing.
Donna
[I didn't say anything about worship.]
Why were the prophets persecuted by their own people?
Because prophets rarely roll into town and say things like, "You're doing a swell job! Keep up the good work!"
(I must've gotten the wrong and of the stick. What kind of change in the church were you talking about?)
Donna
And just what do prophets do, if they are not patting people on the back? Why were the prophets of God hated and persecuted by some?
I have seen a lot of meanness associated with beliefs and doctrines, much more so than practice.
Could Jesus be saying, "If you hang with these misfits ('the least of these'), welcome them, associate with them, love them, etc. you may just find youself hated, despised, insulted, persecuted, etc."?
Is Kingdom justice inclusive/comprehensive? Does everyone like that? Who doesn't like it?
The Bible has to be our quide for everything that we do.When Jesus was eating with the tax collectors and sinners the pharisees were asking the disciples about this and he said," It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this meaans: I desire mercy, not sacrifice. For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." I just think that we cannot comprehend the kind of compassion that Jesus had. I pray that it would be clear to each of us when we act like a pharisee because Jesus was very down on the many haughty self righteous attitudes that they had. Love and mercy seemed to be far from their minds.
Good points. Why is it that those who have mercy, justice, and love "far from their minds" are so critical of those who show compassion?
Wow. Enjoyable reading here and some great thoughts!
When I read this verse, some other scriptures came to mind for me.
Eph. 4:32 and James 1:2-4;12. These are actually highlighted in my Bible. In a previous job, the verse in Eph. was "quoted" numerous times by the higher ups or shall we say the "governing body". I always found it very fascinating to me that this was adopted in public as their motto yet the decisions, actions and treatment of their cohorts and those they were charged with overseeing was far from this scripture. Personally, I suffered various attacts and accusations which I found solace in the second scripture.
When I read these, I always thing that if it were "easy" everyone would be doing it. Also, if it were easy then how much would it be valued? Maybe a really poor anology but think about something that you really value in your life or something that cost you a lot. Part of the reason it is valued now is what it cost you to get it. This seems to me to be part of what this is saying or trying to tell us. The reward is great because it will cost you something to get there, but it is worth it. Just as Wayne noted about the concentration camps. I think it is very difficult for us to conceive what the true costs was in those cases.
Donna, you are right about the prophets. I don't think they come in and say "great job you all! keep it up!" No, they come in and say "hey, wake up losers! get your act together or else!" The reason such are presecuted is that by human nature no one ever wants someone else to point out their shortcomings.
RR
James 1:2-4
Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
James 4:12
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
Do you think it's possible to receive more "trial" than your faith can handle? If not, why do some Christians (even seemingly solid believers)seem to lose their faith when tragedy strikes?
Donna
This verse for me opened my eyes to the fact that I do not live out my faith in such a way that I am persecuted. It's made me realize that I'm not persecuted for my faith and that if I really lived my faith out I would be persecuted more. I think the verse also gives us comfort to know that in the end our lives will be better for sticking with Jesus than denying him. This alone should make us feel more comfortable with persecution and with living our faith out more.
Last summer I lived in one of the most un-reached countries in the world, Turkey, with the goal of telling college students about Christ. There were times that people wouldn't talk to me because I was a Christian. I even had 2 good friends who stopped talking to me because they found out I was a Christian. I felt persecution every where I went. But I dont feel that here in the States. I think this is because I do not always live out my life with the goal of telling people about Christ. I know that if my life's goal was to tell people about Jesus then I would be persecuted more and I would probably experience many of the things I experienced in Turkey.
It only tells me I need to do more in sharing my faith and living my faith out.
I'm not sure about that; I don't think persecution is inevitable for devoted, evangelizing Christians. I don't think 1st century Christians sought persecution. In fact, I suspect whenever possible, they avoided it. We should certainly reach out to others and share our faith, and when persecution comes, we must stand firm. I agree that there should be no compromizing in order to maintain our own comfort and safety. But, let's not glamorize suffering. Sometimes it's part of God's plan for us, and sometimes it's not.
Donna
The New Testament certainly leans toward the inevitability of suffering and persecution. Jesus, John, Peter, and Paul indicate that it will happen and that no one should be surprised by it. Of course John even tells his readers to be faithful to the point of dying. And many of them were and did. Actually some Christians did pursued martyrdom as the ultimate expression of their faith and the assurance of salvation. Ignatius of Antioch convinced his fellow Christians to not stop his execution, believing it was God's will for him.
All of this makes me wonder why we don't experience much persecution. Is it totally due to our culture (for the most part) accepting/tolerating Christians? Or if we were more active in sharing our faith, would there be more persecution along the lines of that described in the New Testament?
I really don't know??? Thoughts? Opinions?
Mitchell is a "safe" place. It is hard to be persecuted in a safe place. Although I wonder what the Morman Missionaries who knock on doors every day would say about this topic...even here in Lawrence County.
I think the meaning of this selection is "persistence". We should be persistent in our beliefs whether or not we are persecuted.
MKC
I agree fully with the previous statement.
I would only reiterate that suffering/persecution are only meaningful if they serve God's purpose.
Also, I think we need to bear in mind the context into which Christ, Paul, Peter, etc., talked about suffering. I don't think it's inevitable that every Christian, everywhere, will suffer in the way Christians in other times/places have. If persecution serves God's purpose, then we must endure it patiently. But, seeking it out for its own sake is foolish.
Donna
Yes, pursing persecution is foolish, but avoiding it is the problem, I think.
Interesting point about the Mormons or similar groups who aggressively strive to spread their faith. I am sure they receive a lot of persecution as described by Jesus. Even though I consider their teaching heresy, I admire their persistence and determination and conviction.
What can we learn from them?
Ok, first let me say that I am as guilty of this as anyone.
We say Lawrence County is safe, Mitchell is safe etc. and the threat of persecution is not really an issue locally. If that is the case then why have you (all of us) not invited 10 people to church this week? Why when you were standing in line at SuperWalmart not mentioned God and your faith to the person in line with you? Why did you not say "God loves you and so do I" to the cashier?
Isn't this because our human nature forces us to be afraid of this and afraid of the backlash which whether it is rejection, laughter, mockery, etc. that is persecution?
I really don't think it was that different for those in the Bible. Their society was different than ours but ours is probably more tolerant than it was at that time, yet we are more reserved with respect to pronouncing our religion.
Just a thought.
RR
I think we've got to stop for a second and define our terms. If you're talking about being criticized and made fun of, that's not persecution. That's rudeness. Persecution is much more severe. I've heard a lot of whining in the Christian community (not necessarily our folks, but some others) that the Church is enduring persecution right now. NO, we're not. We're being criticized (in some cases, justifiably)and disrespected, but not persecuted. Secondly, evangelism is vitally important, I agree. But, we need to do it effectively. The object isn't to show how willing we are to be "persecuted," the object is to win people to Christ. We need to develop EFFECTIVE strategies for helping church members speak naturally and winsomely about Jesus, not necessarily making strangers uncomfortable. A congregation-wide program to equip our people to do this would be one possibility. But, please, let's use some judgment and not do things that make us come off looking like a bunch of goofballs.
Donna
We certainly don’t want to look like goofballs, and how could you with a cool preacher like me? Really? I mean I drive a 92 Bonneville. Nothing but cool; that’s me.
Anyway... Jesus also talks about insults and false words, which is closely related to persecution. These may not measure up to losing your head (literally), but they are painful and real.
I think we are moving toward being more evangelistic. It bothers me that I/we are not. I really don’t know why. I guess I feel this is going to come naturally as we better understand who we are. “We are baptized believers participating in the life of God for the sake of others.” I think as we come to a deeper understanding of all this, we will have more motivation. Hopefully!
I think a simple thing like consciously inviting people to church is a great thing. It is a good start. A “come and see” approach is biblical (read John). I hope we will do a lot of this with the Marriage Matters Seminar. I do believe as we invite more people to more things we will run into insults and then false words may be spoken about us. I think there is certainly a correlation between evangelism and persecution; makes sense.
Wow! What great posts this week! Thanks!
Donna, I love to debate with you!
I have to say that I do however disagree with you on the definition. By definition, persecution is what you said it is not. By definition, harrassement, hassling, bullying, and ridicule are synonyms. Now agreed that persecution in Bible times was much more severe and barbaric as Christians were actively sought out to be beaten, tortured and killed. Today, we don't have a group of guys sitting in a bar and decide "Hey, lets go find us a Christian to terrorize!" (well at least for the most part.)
With respect to this scripture, I look at it more on lower level and I have always looked at this scripture as saying that be proud of your faith and your religion. Be glad when people speak against you becuase you are different. For example be proud when you are in High School and you hear someone call you a prude because you didn't go to the particular party on Friday night or you didn't laugh at the filthy joke. That is how I see it.
RR
[As Moderator I feel I should tell all readers/observers of this blog that Donna and Ryan like each other and LOVE to discuss (debate?). I am pretty sure their posts are written with smiles. It is healthy, and I enjoy watching and “listening.” Other comments in other forms are also welcome!]
Absolutely! All in good fun. I love a spirited discussion, and never get mad. Although, I'm often bewildered when everyone doesn't come around to my way of thinking. My logic is so clear...
Donna
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